Jump to content
Squeeks

Discussion about community activity policy

Recommended Posts

The new policy as written:

 

 



Our roster has hit over 200 members and the guild has passed its one-year anniversary! Until now, we’ve never had any hard and fast rules about what constitutes “inactive” for standing members, but as our guild grows and times goes on, it’s time that we get these hammered out. After all, one of our two core rules is to not be a stranger!

 
  • Being in the game and discord is a packaged deal. If you leave the in-game guild or the discord, we will assume you’re leaving the community. After that, you would be required to reapply as a trial.
    • If you need a break, please post in our LOA forums so we know! If you hit 5 months with a posted LOA, you'll receive a check-in message through the forums. Everyone's situations is different, so these will be taken case-by-case.
    • You can also mute discord (check the spoiler boxes below!).

 

  • To turn off discord notifications:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • To turn off the @ tags (like @pve, @fractals, etc):
  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  • Our inactivity marker is 5 months without logging in in-game.
    • If an account reaches that time, you will be removed from the in-game roster.
    • You'll receive messages through the Reborn of Embers website and also in Guild Wars 2, regarding your removal from RISE. However you may message any of the leadership members to discuss any unexpected LoA that you may have encountered! Please note that you'll have only 1 week after removal to get back in touch with us.
      • Please be sure to message a Recruitment Flame or Phoenix directly. Messages can be lost in the general chat channels.
    • After the one week timeframe, you will be removed from discord and set to Former Member on the site if we have not heard back from you.

 

 

This is going into effect with this post (5/24/2020), however, because of the holiday weekend, no removals will begin till Wednesday, May 27th

 

What changes do you want to see? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll make my grievance pretty straightforward.  If Guild Wars 2 is a requirement to being a member of Rise, a community I joined day 1 and was on the ground floor of helping create, and a community that I was not actively playing Guild Wars 2 at that time... then I will be leaving RISE as a whole... because that's not what we were supposed to stand for, and because I am largely done playing Guild Wars 2 for the foreseeable future (and have been since about August of last year).  How can I be a member of a Guild Wars 2 community if I don't play the game after all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, sojourner202 said:

I'll make my grievance pretty straightforward.  If Guild Wars 2 is a requirement to being a member of Rise, a community I joined day 1 and was on the ground floor of helping create, and a community that I was not actively playing Guild Wars 2 at that time... then I will be leaving RISE as a whole... because that's not what we were supposed to stand for, and because I am largely done playing Guild Wars 2 for the foreseeable future (and have been since about August of last year).  How can I be a member of a Guild Wars 2 community if I don't play the game after all?

Okay, Sojourner, I know you have your concerns and  you really want to make sure the staff don't pull out the same mistakes as the past guild the majority of the people left behind, but you are getting a little bit too far with this attitude with threathening to leave; remain calm.

I, And I know everyone else around RISE understands your concerns, but there's no reason to go to the extremes. This is an issue that came up now, because when the guild was created, we were just the vast majority of people who were playing gw2... now that the guild increased their numbers, we have to think now in re-estructuring our recruitment policies not as GW2 centered but as a gaming community as whole. Sooner or later this was going to happen

Edited by Outshined

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Outshined said:

now that the guild increased their numbers, we have to think now in re-estructuring our recruitment policies not as GW2 centered but as a gaming community as whole.

This is something I've wanted to see for a long time. Not sure if everyone is quite ready for it but I am all in whenever we are. 

 

I would also not be opposed to having existing leadership focus solely on GW2 and keeping that part of the community strong while adding a new section of leadership dedicated to the entire community as a whole. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'm not really talking about extremes.  I was already looking at removing Guild Wars 2 from my SSD to free up space since I haven't played in months and I have very little space remaining on it.

32 minutes ago, Squeeks said:

Being in the game and discord is a packaged deal. If you leave the in-game guild or the discord, we will assume you’re leaving the community. After that, you would be required to reapply as a trial.

  • If you need a break, please post in our LOA forums so we know! If you hit 5 months with a posted LOA, you'll receive a check-in message through the forums. Everyone's situations is different, so these will be taken case-by-case.
  • You can also mute discord (check the spoiler boxes below!).

 

 

32 minutes ago, Squeeks said:

Our inactivity marker is 5 months without logging in in-game.

  • If an account reaches that time, you will be removed from the in-game roster.

 

Both of these would prohibit me from remaining a member of RISE if they are moved forward with. 

 

"This is an issue that came up now, because when the guild was created, we were just the vast majority of people who were playing gw2... now that the guild increased their numbers, we have to think now in re-estructuring our recruitment policies not as GW2 centered but as a gaming community as whole."

That's the thing.  When this guild was created, sure the majority played GW2, but it was at its core NOT a Guild Wars 2 guild.  It was a community.  We shouldn't need to think about re-structuring as a gaming community because thats what it was from the start.  Only by ADDING requirement specific to Guild Wars 2 do we make ourselves suddenly not a general gaming community.

Edited by sojourner202

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess this whole thing is, simply put, a semantics issue, and perhaps a cultural issue as an extension of that. However, there are more which concerns the group as a whole.

 

The community has grown into another thing entirely. I feel like our concern is not as much about "playing Guild Wars" as it is to be a guild that goes beyond activities outside the game. It feels much more about a socialization group that tries to bring people together.

 

I'm not one to say about much, but if we're trying to socialize, then the best way to do that is not to impose anything. If you've joined this guild through and for GW2, we have the aspects for that. If you've joined this guild through GW2 but for the community, we also have several activities for that.

 

I feel like the actual issue isn't "participation in-game". I feel like the issue is that we've branched out to several other aspects, but the administration did not follow the same rhythm.

 

Even now we still have several Flames focused towards GW2 - Fractals, Raids, PvP, Open World. Why not branch that out towards the other aspects of the community? Maybe even have some kind of "event supervisor" Flame? Those are ideas, but the community has expanded - so we probably need to expand the moderation team as well...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it seems to me like this policy was not really written to consider people who are no longer active in GW2 but are still active in Discord and other stuff. If the intention is merely ghostbusting, the policy should probably be revised to clarify that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Redrin Duodecim said:

If you've joined this guild through GW2 but for the community, we also have several activities for that.

I made a proposal back in October about brining in friends and family in a non gw2 way, it didn't go anywhere at the time but maybe this is a good opportunity to revisit it. 

@sojourner202

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Squeeks said:

I made a proposal back in October about brining in friends and family in a non gw2 way, it didn't go anywhere at the time but maybe this is a good opportunity to revisit it. 

@sojourner202

 

I agree with this.

I'll re-state what I was trying to say.  We don't need to "spread to other games" and become a "multi-gaming community".  When we were founded we were just a community, and while many of us had Guild Wars 2 in common, we didn't discriminate based on what games you were playing.  I'm talking about not becoming LESS inclusive just to make it easier to remove inactive community members.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really glad that the text of the policy will be clarified to say that current members who do not play gw2 but are still active in the community (discord, forums, other games with guildies) will not be in danger of removal.

 

It'll be awkward for me and whoever is on the other end of that PM at 5 months, though. I'd have already hit it if not for Jinn's special strike mission event. I thought about this yesterday, upon reading the new policy, and I think the thing is that getting that message as an otherwise-active member who may already be wondering if I "fit in" with a primarily-GW2 guild will feel like being called out as "less than."

 

I don't want active members to feel second-class. Ever. I *do* want to remove folks who have ghosted and just never got around to saying goodbye officially. That's totally appropriate.

 

I wish we'd had this conversation before the official policy was posted, because member input could have helped make these edits and improve clarity before anybody got ruffled. I hope we'll take the extra time to do that in the future whenever possible.

 

There seem to be a few people who are feeling like if they aren't active in GW2, they're not valued or labeled as truly contributing members, although some of those folks contribute in really significant ways.

 

We did attempt to go in a more game-agnostic direction originally, and that can be tricky because of course we had a really obvious foundation in GW2. But being game-agnostic can be less about sweeping policy changes and more about culture and communication. 

 

I don't have the right answers, but I really want to have a collaborative discussion about what kind of *community* we want to be as a whole and what tweaks we can make to be more inclusive. After all, this community was founded on the principle that *people* are critically important. Not numbers of people, but their ideas and friendships and contributions -- whether in a game or in the community as a whole. When I see members leave because they don't play GW2 anymore, or go distant because they feel they can't really connect with us because they aren't interested in GW2 right now, we're losing a friend. And friendships don't come easily to everybody.

 

We have SO much more to offer than one game. We have 200 members!! There are countless interests and experiences represented there. Nobody should feel like they're a second-class member, or they have to leave, or they don't belong fully to this community because their gaming interests have evolved. That is bound to happen to most gamers over the course of a year, two years, ten years (and I always consider RISE getting into the double-digits as a well-established and thriving community... I am a hopeless optimist about that).

 

Our policies, communications, and support (i.e., leadership ranks and how we organize/highlight info) exist to serve members. I hope we'll explore some new options and do a RISE culture gut-check as we recognize how much we've grown and changed in a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think these are some solid ideas as to how we can address the community relations concerns.  I think they’re definitely things to look into more!  So thanks, y’all.

 

@Squeeks, thanks for all of the input.  Like you said, the friend rank just didn’t really go anywhere when we tried, so I definitely agree that this might be a good time to revisit it.   The only issue is that I don’t want people who hold the friend rank to feel like they aren’t welcome.  I also do remember us talking about it and coming to the conclusion back in September about people who don’t play GW2 joining the community, and it was basically that we should try the friend rank, but if they don’t play GW2 to begin with, it doesn’t make much sense.  I don’t mean any disrespect by saying that, but I want to point out the fact that GW2 basically being a requirement, implicit or not, is not new.


Here are my thoughts on this as a whole

With leading a community comes many difficulties and great challenges, and anyone who has been a part of leadership here can attest.  But one thing that is essential is that we all keep moving forward, and at least trying to move forward together.  Each perspective is unique and each person brings something different and amazing to the table.  When we get passionate about a topic, it’s essential that we remain excellent to one another and try to understand where the other is coming from.  As leadership changes, new ideas are brought forth and tried.  Some do not stick, but others are liked well enough to stay, and even then, the ideas won’t always be liked by everyone.  But while some, if not several, of these ideas that stem from many people will have fundamental issues, please try to understand that the intent is never to be demeaning, opaque, or hurtful to anyone, but rather to make the community stronger in some way.  From running organizations, clubs, music ensembles, etc, these are fundamental things that I personally have observed.
 

That being said, I understand the concerns and feelings.  Please believe me when I say that we as leadership don’t want anyone in this community to feel unwelcome.  As we’ve said, we’re revising the wording of the policy so it will be clearer, so I hope we can put that to rest.  There have been some productive thoughts and ideas on how to track activity in the community as well, so we will discuss that too.
 

If anyone has any questions or concerns they don’t feel comfortable airing publicly, I’m more than happy to try to answer them or bring them up to other members of leadership, simply chat with you about it, or even just listen to some venting if you need to do that too.

 

Be safe out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

So here's my take. And I think it somewhat is a compromise solution which possibly not everyone is happy but accomplishs a lot of the goals both sides have.  If someone hasn't played gw2 for 5 months+ I am fine with them being removed from the in game guild. As it makes since to free up space for new people who are active in the game. However I am against removing them from forms and discord as well. They are still a member of the rise community and since there is no cap on website nor discord there is no reason to remove them from those platforms. On the off chance they return to gw2 they shouldn't have to redo the trial as they have already been vetted even if they don't play for 6 months they are still part of our family. Only exception to this being that they leaving willingly or get kicked out for other reasons and want to rejoin in future. Again this probably won't make anyone happy but also is a good compromise I feel. 

Edited by Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

My biggest concern is for people like @Sunnee 🐧 and @sojourner202 whom may not be active in gw2 and received PM's about being removed for inactivity, but are both active in discord almost daily if not daily. On the off chance they didnt check their email or the forms for a week even though they use discord daily. They would be removed from all platforms of the guild. I am against things like this. 

 

sorry to name names but wanted to point out there are real people that interact with us daily whom would be affected by this. 

Edited by Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Sorry for repeat posts. One more thing I think that we have learned in hindsight. Is in future big changes like this, it may be better to make a post stating something like "hey all we are thinking of doing x or changing x, let us know what you think about it." And get some feedback to make everyone a part of it similar to how guild rules at start were created. Rather than just just a blanketed "this is a change, and we've already put the wheels in motion." Would avoid or at least have less of a blowback in future changes.

 

Afterall, big changes from leadership without transparency from another guild is the reason this guild exists 

Edited by Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ed said:

Sorry for repeat posts. One more thing I think that we have learned in hindsight. Is in future big changes like this, it may be better to make a post stating something like "hey all we are thinking of doing x or changing x, let us know what you think about it." And get some feedback to make everyone a part of it similar to how guild rules at start were created. Rather than just just a blanketed "this is a change, and we've already put the wheels in motion." Would avoid or at least have less of a blowback in future changes.

Completely agree. A heads-up on big changes and a time period for open discussion would really help spot potential issues and allow folks who have strong opinions to voice them while changes are still being finalized. Even if, ultimately, not much is updated, just having a conversation can put a lot of minds at ease.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Ed said:

My biggest concern is for people like @Sunnee 🐧 and @sojourner202 whom may not be active in gw2 and received PM's about being removed for inactivity, but are both active in discord almost daily if not daily. On the off chance they didnt check their email or the forms for a week even though they use discord daily. They would be removed from all platforms of the guild. I am against things like this. 

 

sorry to name names but wanted to point out there are real people that interact with us daily whom would be affected by this. 

I agree with this. I've been taking a break from Guild wars since I started back up school, but I've been heavily active in the Animal crossing discord channel within the guild and I'd be devastated to be kicked out of all platforms because I'm not playing Guild wars right now. 😔

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really obvious that people would like their voices heard on these issues, and pushing through these big policies (such as the new "official statement of our philosophy") feel like they are being created to discourage discussion . If leadership is not careful, this is going to end up driving people away because they don't feel valued because they no longer play GW2 so they aren't part of the "core," and their voices matter less, which really goes against "Be Excellent to Each Other" (our true philosophy IMO....). Of course this isn't the intention but I'm feeling the need to stand up for people who don't play GW2, which is a weird feeling in such an inclusive group. The last thing I want is to stir up trouble but it seems we are having some growing pains, and it would be wrong to stifle discussion with blanket statements IMO...would really appreciate some transparency and discussion from leadership on these changes, maybe a voice chat town hall or something would be great? Or some regular guild meetings since we are pretty awesomely big now, so more voices can be heard? I feel like the last thing leadership would want is to create divisiveness and this would be a good way to help some of the concerns people are having from today, and some closure.

2 hours ago, Ed said:

Is in future big changes like this, it may be better to make a post stating something like "hey all we are thinking of doing x or changing x, let us know what you think about it." And get some feedback to make everyone a part of it similar to how guild rules at start were created. Rather than just just a blanketed "this is a change, and we've already put the wheels in motion." Would avoid or at least have less of a blowback in future changes.

 

Afterall, big changes from leadership without transparency from another guild is the reason this guild exists 

^^^^^^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Donor

agree with Siscia and Kell and others who've said that this sort of decision should be approached with some degree of community input. Come on, folks... we can work this out ...

 

i've been lurking  a lot, but playing WoW classic with friends so not really around here much ... anyone play WoW classic? I'd rather not get kicked out, because I still (even though I'm largely a ghost at the moment) intend to come back and play more.

 

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the 200-person limit ... is this a Dunbar number thing, an arbitrary "hey omg 200 is a lot" feeling thing, or a hard in-game guild limit?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

hey please no one take anything that has being discussed as a personal attack. I'm 100% sure that we all want what is best for all of us. There is just a slight disagreement as to what that is. I think that if people feel attacked, it closes them off from wanting to discuss things and try to work out solutions. And as some of us have learned not discussing things is how small problems become big issues. So.... lets talk about that. Please remember everyone here is your friend and really wants what is best for you and the rest of your friends that we all share. 

Edited by Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Alright folks. There has been some discontent here, so much so that I now find imperative to give out my two cents on this.

 

Sure, the main interest of the community, collectively, "on average," is GW2. Thats no surprise. 95% of our events are in that game, and we advertise ourselves as a GW2 community, so surely enough, the people with a logical reason to apply to RISE are people who currently play that game.

 

However...

 

Once people do join the community over the common interest of GW2, they start to form genuine bonds of friendship. And while someone may get tired of or burnt out of playing GW2 after a couple months, bonds of friendship don't get "burnt out" that easily.

 

Given that, and the fact that we founded RISE thinking about creating a cozy virtual family, or at least that how I saw it (exemplified by how people who were inactive on GW2 at the time participated, because the community was important), I really don't think we should entirely kick out people who have not been active in game, but have been active on discord/forums.

 

So, to kick them out of the in-game guild, which has a cap limit and is in a game they don't currently play anyways? Yea, sure. Kick them out of the community when they're still interacting? Bruh...

 

I myself don't play GW2 much these days, and most of the time I do play it, I play it because of the community. I play it because it is the best manner to stay in touch with many of you, whom I hold dearly.

Edited by BlackBird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey y'all. The first post of this thread is now misleading because we've clarified this on our recent clarification post directed towards this thread: 

 

There's a lot of misleading information that you or other people may be in danger  of being kicked from the community as a whole. Y'all are good. This is a simple guild roster clean out for those that have ghosted us. Ghosted being, they haven't talk to us in ANY form of communication or have attending any form of event, outside of the game or not. This is also for folks that even have left our discord, but are still in the game and still inactive. A message has been sent to folks that may be inactive to confirm if they are or not. If the off chance that they are, but are still active in the community else where (and we may not be aware), they can simply just let us know and we gotchu. 

 

We are hearing y'all from this thread and we hoped that the clarification post helped cleared some air, but maybe we needed to directly post on this thread to make sure. We do hear y'all and the feedback is appreciated. 🙂 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Donor
Posted (edited)

Thanks for addressing this here so we could see the changes, @Peureki

Idea that maybe has already been discussed: One fairly simple solution to this issue is to  add a new membership rank/status for inactive/hiatus folks - call it 'ash' or something... basically people aren't removed after inactivity for 5 months and they don't have to reapply as a trial when they come back,  but their rank changes until they come back (after an attempt to contact them and inform them of this)... the 'removal' thing could be pushed out to another / longer time period. 

for comparison, a WoW guild that I was a member and officer of back before 2010 (actually I stopped playing WoW in 2012)... but when I logged in again after being out of the game for 7.5 years, I was still shockingly a guild member) ... I'd been moved to an inactive status and locked out of guild bank and stuff (in case my account had been hacked). I know that's an extreme case, but it was a nice surprise, and made it super easy to connect with old friends.

Edited by Liferock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there are multiple issues that people have been concerned about. The inactivity policy is one issue, and it seems to have been more or less addressed at this point, since solving it was just a simple matter of clarification. The second issue, which is related to the first but also distinct, was the question of the role of GW2 in this community. Without making any comment on what I personally think that role should be, I can see why people are frustrated with how this issue has been handled. People who were concerned wanted to have a discussion about this, and instead, what happened was that the phoenixes put out an “official statement” declaring the guild’s policy. Although the statement was very kindly worded, and definitely intended to come across as welcoming, it sort of felt, to me at least, like a gesture of “No, we’re not having a discussion, this is the policy.” I think it’s worth reiterating the point @Ed made earlier about the value of having discussions about things like this before putting them into place, since this, among other things, makes people feel like they are being listened to and taken seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with @Saerryc. "Solving" the issue of community identity by declaring its "official philosophy" in a statement seems rather authoritarian. I'd like to see more discussions about this in the future, instead of having a statement crafted that makes the decision for us.

 

Also, thanks for the clarification @Peureki. My mind is at much more ease now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...